What Are You Looking For?
“There must be a new order, a new way of living. To bring about that new order, that new way of living, we must understand disorder. It is only through negation that you understand the positive, not by the pursuit of the positive. You understand, sir? When you deny, put aside, what is negative; when you understand the whole sociological and inward disorder that human beings have created; when you understand that, as long as each human being is ambitious, greedy, envious, competitive, seeking position, power, authority, he is creating disorder; and when you understand the structure of disorder—that very understanding brings about discipline, discipline not of suppression, not of imitation. Out of negation comes the right discipline, which is order.
So, to understand oneself is the beginning of wisdom. Wisdom does not lie in books, nor in experience, nor in following another, nor in repeating a lot of platitudes. Wisdom comes to a mind that is understanding itself, understanding how thought is born. Have you ever questioned or asked: What is the beginning of thought, how does thought come into being? That is a very important thing to understand. Because, if you can understand the beginning of thought, then perhaps you can find a mind that is not burdened with thought as a repetition of what has been. As we said, thought is always old, thought is never new.
Unless you discover for yourself—not repeat what somebody says, it doesn’t matter who it is—unless you find out for yourself the beginning of thought, like a seed which puts out a green leaf, you cannot possibly go beyond the limitations of yesterday.”
J. Krishnamurti
Public Talk 3, Bombay, 1967
Please share your thoughts
The Immeasurable is dedicated to exploring the essential questions of our existence: who we are and where we are going. The intent is to inspire readers to question assumptions of the mind, offering opportunities to ask deep questions into common life themes which are superficially accepted.
We encourage an investigation into the fabric of reality and our physical and cultural conditioning. In this exploration, we might find a new understanding of time and its relation to our thinking processes. A perception of the interconnectedness within the totality of life might arise in us as our perception expands through these explorations.
Share your thoughts in the comments below.
What in daily existence is not touched by thought?
The natural world: Trees, mountains, etc, etc. This exists, it’s real and is not the product of thinking
The voice in this recording was quite good!!!
Thought is an invention of the mind. No thoughtṣ = no mind, dissolved or annihilated. Experience a vast space, all we hear inwardly is the voice/vibration of wisdom!
The natural world: Trees, mountains, etc, etc. Narure exists, it’s real and is not the product of thinking
We need thought in the practical world we live in to do the daily things one must do to survive. Such as; prepare our meals, build or maintain our homes, drive a car, etc, etc.
Thought is the accumulation of experience and knowledge. The problems with thought seem to arise when it invents an image it sees as the “thinker”, the “experiencer”. Neither of which exists in fact. It’s interesting that quantum mechanics has made this discovery also. Dr David Bohm once said this is what attracted him to dialogue with K, among other things. The center, the ego is an image invented by thought.
I agree original thought, who actually has an original thought. How many thoughts have we stored away second hand thoughts waiting for us to use. Using second hand thoughts we are portraying other people not being true to ourselves, we are lost the lost people and looking in the wrong place to find our way home back to our inner self, the trick is not to be tricked be yourself untrick self escape the trap see it for what it is. Dare oneself to be different, the thought of fear somebody else’s original thought will stop that , though it is just a thought.
Are we talking here about the psychological mind Viady? We needs thoughts in order to function practically ,we are like a computer which has its function but is limited.
In my ‘usual’ state of mind time is not important to me any more, I never know exactly what time it is until i check my watch. Which I often forget to put on my wrist.
In my professional life I used to live with time for more than 20 years, I always tried tot manage both myself and my work by managing the time of the clock, because, as you know, in projects time is money and money is time.
Time was the beginning of my day and the end of my day too. Only in my sleep there was not time.
But now, for many years already, thanks to Krishnamurti’s clarifications, I know time can come to an end, and my thoughts naturally dissolve with it.
I also can stop time on my own command, of which Krishnamurti says it is ridiculous, but it’s my own experiencing, so to me it is a fact.
Suffering is a process in time, as Krishnamurit has explained many times and in many ways, so suffering ends too, when you are ‘in the moment’.
So I am able to end the sorrow at my command, which brings me instant freedom of mind. As you yourself probably would say: ‘that’s ridiculous’, if this is not of you.
The moment is not of time. although Krishnamurti have said that it is all the time there is. So to me the moment is the eternal and the endless.
“In my ‘usual’ state of mind time is not important to me any more, I never know exactly what time it is until i check my watch. Which I often forget to put on my wrist.”
As long as you think in terms of “I” and “my” there is still thought and thought is time. A movement in psychological time. A mind that is free of time is not aware of being free of time.
Any conclusion we come to is the result of thought. According to K a quiet mind does not come to conclusions it observes without judgement and opinions. This seems like a very important aspect of K’s teachings to understand.
His way to get to core of the issue by peeling off the unreal , is unique.He cuts across all the illusions enmeshed in the passage n gets on
Thanx
“The seeing is the doing” – what more is there to grasp?
Krishnamurti has changed people. I don’t know what I’d be like today without his works: I’m sure there are millions more who would say the same. And his focus on the illusions of the mind, his attention to facts and description of opinions, assertions, conclusions as worthless – these insights offer us a way out of this age of disinformation, propaganda, spin and lies.
What is the beginning of thought, how does thought come into being? Thought is God/logos? “In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with God, and the logos was God.” – John 1:1
Mundo, Thanks for giving us another wonderful example of biblical tripe and general nonsense. So often K pointed out how utterly absurd organized religion is with it’s dogma, customs, traditions, ceremonies and it’s thought invented “gods”. We invented “god” to ally our fears and insecurities and other neuroses. Mankind uses “god” and religion the same way alcoholics us drink to try to escape their fears and insecurities.
As “k” says: thought comes from knowledge and knowledge is the residue of experiencing. In facing with phenomenas we first experiencing them and while experiencing the brain is recording, and from that recordes, that is memory of the fact, that is memory of experiencing, comes thought. So, thought is not the actual thing but it is a memory, an image of the actuality that has been in past and now there is just knowledge of it.
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I think the teachings of Krishnamurti are far more advanced than the level of understanding of modern man, who is completely immersed in the contents of the mind, but living these teachings, if understood by each human being, is the trump card of human society to build a new civilization and a beautiful world. Appreciation for the conscious and loving effort of all those who sincerely work to introduce these wonderful and fundamental teachings to the human and the human world.
These videos are very very beautiful! Congratulations!! I hope you continue to make another videos!
If We are aware we do have choice to choose correct n positive thought n let go waste or negative thought n prevent making our present karmas ;but soon thought gets transferred to action
While it is nice to hear that if you can understand the beginning of thought, then perhaps you can find a mind that is not burdened with thought as a repetition of what has been, it is equally true that one does not have control on his thoughts. In as much as we try to focus and think in a positive manner, there are bound to be negative thoughts too. How then, do we understand the beginning of thought OR for that matter find a mind that is not burdened with thought?
Is your question an excuse for not having to deal with the question, because due to the contradictions you point out everything would be a waste of love anyway? Or are you actually about to invest all your energy in the resolution of the question?