The Observer Is the Observed
“Am I different from the content of my consciousness? If I am different from the thing I observe in myself, then there is a division between ‘me’ and the thing which I enquire into.
We’re going to go into a little more. I observe in myself anger. I am angry. Or I am greedy, envious. Is that envy different from me who is observing that reaction which I call ‘envy’? Or that envy is me; I am not different from that envy.
So, when I observe, is there a division between the observer and the observed? Then there is conflict. Then I try to suppress it, control it, or run away from it, or try to wish to change it.
But if the observer is the observed, then a totally different action takes place.
Are we dissipating the mystery of it? Because this is very important, right from the beginning. We are conditioned to the conflict of this division. We are conditioned to either suppress it, or analyze it or run away from it. We are educated, to accept this division. But when one looks into it very, very deeply – not very deeply, it’s fairly simple – one sees the observer is the observed, therefore, you eliminate all conflict.”
J. Krishnamurti
Brockwood Park, 1976
Can’t help thinking that the Krishnamurti I encountered would have been horrified by the video that accompanies his words.
Surely these images are a distraction from the words; and what is wrong with simply seeing K himself?
Hi John,
Maybe K would have been horrified, I don’t know. However, my view (which may be very wrong) is that there is a great problem at the heart of K’s message to the world at this time. While he lived his presence attracted thousands of people like you and me during a radical time. Things are different now. There is no living presence called Krishnamurti and the era is very different. I don’t know if you have attended any of the functions at the Foundation in Ojai but I recently did. It was full of old people like me; very few of younger generations. My opinion is that this incredible message needs a boost to attract younger people lest it become something only found in dusty references. Perhaps you are right but something needs doing to energize the message to gain the attention and interest of a new generation of explorers into the singular world of this great messenger. If you have suggestions I am sure the Foundation would love to hear from you. They are very friendly.
With respect – R.S.
J
Hi Robert,
I’m taking your message very seriously and I’m glad to know, someone understands the problematic.
Krishnamurti to me is much more than just one of myriads of spiritual teachings overwhelming the world today, mostly using famous names and running spiritual business.
In my vision, it’s unique and irreplaceable and essentially important for any single human being as well for any social organization and movement on the earth.
In my vision, his teaching is the only fair means which is capable to organize and resolve the problem of seeking and finding out the UNIVERSAL HUMAN LIFE VALUES, that way, take away the essential problems of the modern world and avoid imminent Global Crisis.
This issue of yours I was constantly trying to bring up when the forum KFA was still working and especially I was in active conversation with Krishnamurti Australia.
In the meantime, Krishnamurti Foundations and other different establishments in the world have done a great work in preserving and dissemination of his teaching. Yet, today, as you say, time has changed and it’s not enough. The teaching has to be inspired with new life.
I that K s method of word choice and instructions could not be heard by the egoic mind. Ancient religion and new age spiritual teachings like presence, prayer, meditation, pure conscious awareness, being, all fall short as methods to penetrate the ego, separate sense of self or the Christian devil. I know he didn’t buy into any of it but learning that the observer is the observed has the same flaw of time and space. However, an understanding of this is the way and the truth to fall into the quality of mind that he talks about and agree that it should be resurrected but in a way that beats the egoic barrier. Here is the problem with his explanation. He implied that the thoughts, emotions, ideas, suffering, desires, fears, anxiety, depression, time, pleasure, past future, expectations, memory, knowledge, body identity, personality, etc were all a part of “what is” to be observed and to unify with. I’m pretty sure he meant that most of this was made up in the head and is what separated the observer from the observed. For example, if I am struggling to learn a skill, for fun lets say golf. When I am not playing golf, I feel frustration and desire to do something to improve. You don’t become one with frustration, desire, and improvement…that is all self created. Instead, you look at the current level of golf through the heart, the entire being, and not the head. You become one with the end product. It is no longer that I am frustrated to improve, but that, “I am that”…I am a golfer at whatever skill level…a joining with the fact of what is and not the ideal. You don’t obsere the observed with words but become it without any judgment of good or bad. Appropriate thoughts and emotions might come in unlike the old ones that are delusional, but you start learning the skill from a clear and empty space. Then, the awareness, love and will of God might be found in that place. My point is that there was a slight flaw in explanation.
I agree! But, I am still lost with the explanation of observer and observed. Could you please share some more mundane examples? Please
I agree. Video does seem to invoke imagination which might distract and prevent attention to what is said. But??♂️
Studies in neuroscience clearly supports this. We are our thoughts and reactions and there is no part of the brain that is running the rest of the brain; there is no center of self to oversee brain activity. Since the brain is very modular and has been constructed as layers of memory over time, the end result is a great opportunity for conflict and inconsistency. The real question then is that since there is no “little person” inside the brain running it, is there some way other than imaginary “will power” for the brain to be able to gain reorganization for logical and sane activity regarding itself and the outer world?
This message leaves no room for comments as it causes no conflict or division, quiets the mind and moves your soul. Beautiful.
I like this video. Is there a center of the Self that like a snowflake has distinctive form. This individual snowflake forms from water, lives for a moment then melts into water again.
integrate the thought speech communication action behavior to have an unified inner and outer world do what we say and say what we mean to do
on touch interaction leads to many then that ebbs too. too much of intimacy breeds contempt. we have to balance between early bird gets the worm and the better to be late than never.
JK has put it succinctly and elegantly, we have to remove the layers of conditioning and thinking to reach the actuality. enjoyed his talk and sharing.
Me gusta muchísimo este y todos los artículos sobre Krisnamurti .Quiero seguir aprendiendo en la Vida . Tengo 73 años. Por favor ,no sé Inglés podrían enviarme en Español ?
Gracias adelantadas.
“¿Soy diferente del contenido de mi conciencia? Si soy diferente de lo que observo en mí mismo, entonces hay una división entre “yo” y lo que investigo.
Vamos a entrar un poco más. Observo en mi enojo. Estoy enojado. O soy codicioso, envidioso. ¿Es esa envidia diferente de mí que está observando esa reacción que yo llamo ‘envidia’? O esa envidia soy yo; No soy diferente de esa envidia.
Entonces, cuando observo, ¿hay una división entre el observador y lo observado? Luego hay conflicto. Luego trato de suprimirlo, controlarlo o huir de él o intentar cambiarlo.
Pero si el observador es lo observado, entonces tiene lugar una acción totalmente diferente.
¿Estamos disipando el misterio de eso? Porque esto es muy importante, desde el principio. Estamos condicionados al conflicto de esta división. Estamos condicionados a suprimirlo, analizarlo o escapar de él. Estamos educados, para aceptar esta división. Pero cuando uno lo observa muy, muy profundamente, no muy profundamente, es bastante simple, uno ve que el observador es lo observado, por lo tanto, elimina todo conflicto “.
J. Krishnamurti
Brockwood Park, 1976
Hola Neyda, aquí tienes unos cuantos. http://www.fkla.org/ensenanzas/videos-1.html. Cordialmente
Beautiful video. It seems to me that the subject object divide is our first foray into fragmentation shortly after we are born. Unless we observe this very carefully we do lose our contact to unitary consciousness. JK is always succinct about us having to get behind our thoughts and conditioning. I am also thinking about Ken Wilber’s approach engaging first, second and third person senses on our way toward emptiness/awareness.
Clearly the place and functions of thoughts not understood by mankind for a long time. In the physical world thought separate things in order to distinguish it and takes that method and applies it to psychological . There one gets caught in seeing envy as separate entity to deal with . What J.K pointing out is to see the limitations of thoughts . Thoughts created the self to perpetuate its mischief.
To put it simply according to what I see is that, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is Ugly.”
Yes, Charlie, that’s right. Yet, it’s about conditional seeing of the world with its beauty and ugliness.
Seeing of Krishnamurti is entirely different from that. It’s about seeing absolute, universal beauty, love, immeasurable.
Human mind has to be absolutely still to be able to see those special valuables.
hay varios video en la red como este con subtitulos en Catellano
The formation of nouns such as envy, jealous during any observation seem to require a subject. At least in my case. Does Envy know that “it” is envy without being outside of its presence? My argument is that someone “needs” to be there to feel envy, otherwise there is no feeling on envy. Sorry for being philosophical here but I have delve into this particular sentence from K for many years including attending a retreat in Ojai. I think the intention is to have the mind quite (aka no one is there) and this has happened to me several times listening to Hudson Smith interviewing K (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7uAKbsgpI&list=FL4fUSrTqbz3378uX0_AcfBQ&index=12).
I welcome any constructive feedback.
Thanks,
UD
MAYBE you have not gone deep enough.If one is in this state of awareness just looking without thought interfering it dissolves itself, or rather this awareness dissolves it. If we can see thought separating itself and making this imaginary entity then that is it, eureka, I have found it.
Phyl
I think your paragraph was spot on. The “process” you described,. being aware of how
thought is making divisions or separations within the mind puts a stop to it without
making any effort to control it.
Hi UD,
I believe I understand your point.
On one hand, pure conscious awareness exists, and we experience our lives through it…. And even if our experience of life is an illusion, someone is experiencing it! So there’s consciousness… Or awareness… We know that.
And then there’s the *content* of consciousness which includes, for humans, thoughts, feelings, emotions, memories, desires, dreams, etc.. And a sense of being the individual, decision making, “I” at the controls.
I don’t think K was addressing that point. I believe he was trying to point out that within the totality of the content of consciousness, the part of our consciousness that seems to be the “real you”… At times observing and judging the “other stuff” like jealousy, anger, and all the rest of those parts of experience… Is no more or less “you” than any other aspects of experience.
The sense of being the “me” inside, is just as false, two dimensional, contrived, as any other thought. It’s all passing mindstufff. But STILL…. AWARENESS, ALIVENESS, PRESENCE EXISTS! IF YOU SAY IT’S AN ILLUSION…. WHO IS EXPERIENCING IT??? ?
This is fact. Open your minds. Open your hearts. Live your only life to the fullest and be the light that shines the way for others. We are all in this together. This is fact.
Kristian. Who or what entity is opening the mind. Or is it when the entity is gone
the mind opens by itself? Opens in the sense that all the illusions about self, religions,
or Nationalism have crumbled.
Either way the sharing/message is of great importance.
Division is the Maya. Words create division… nay, they are a symptom of division. Never the less, in the beginning there was division… light from darkness. Maybe it’s not the absence of division we could look for, but an attenuation. An acceptance that, as real and painful as life sometimes appears… is it is a partial illusion, therefore…
The observer being the observed being a reality maybe difficult for some as it was for “me”. Because the brain is so heavily trained to resist this change. Even though one can understand that this is our programming. For some us even our of the word associations maybe part of the barrier that prevents fully grasping the observer being the observed. K, used different associations such the thinker is the thought or the meditator is meditation in order to give a different perspective. So one can have understanding in watching and thus capture the beginning or origin of this movement. This movement which we name or call the observer, thinker or meditator I can see from beginning to end.
Does anyone understand K message?
If I say, I do — would you believe me, Jimbob?
Or you will be still in doubt thinking, no one in the world understands it?
Anyway, when Krishnamurti was talking for audience at UNO dedicated to 40th anniversary of its establishment, no one had a clue, what he was talking about.
The gathering was under motto of necessity of peace on the planet. As we all know, there has been a lot of changes in the world since then.
Unfortunately, far away from peace and general prosperity of mankind.
Yes, I feel I understand the message jimbob Lewis and believe it is really quite simple. If you pay very careful attention and watch yourself, you will see that there is a division or a duality which is the watcher(I) and the watched(thoughts). I am watching my thoughts (very chattery) and suddenly I notice the I that is watching is also the thoughts or arises out of the thoughts. It might be easier if you notice yourself when you feel angry for example and maybe the thought that I shouldn’t be angry arises, splitting the actual feeling of anger with the idea that I shouldn’t be angry so now there is a conflict. Instead if you can see yourself who is angry thinking I should not be angry as one and the same thing then there is only anger. This is very liberating because when you are left with just anger you now shift into a state of observation, looking with great curiosity and interest, learning, going into it, into anger, staying with it. This is awareness. Krishnamurti talks about seeing the duality instantly (the observer is the observe, the experience the experienced the thinker the thought and so forth) which I did and which has greatly changed me however the experience wasn’t like some kind of mind blowing nirvana.
Sir thanq so much. It’s really great explanation.
K’s teaching are relevant to quantum mechanics where the observer is the observed is pivotal. You wont believe it, but I arrived at the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics without math and all by myself in the light of K’s teachings because clearly, intellectually understood the observer is the observed. Also K’s teachings are becoming more and more relevant in Artificial intelligence. So if we publish papers in these two fields with K’s teachings as a reference then we can awaken a “going into” into the teachings.
One human ponders existence aloud in company … knowing All is One … hoping the passing breezebirdbrookbabbleholyshininglight of observed consciousness is more when shared. LoveLoveLove
years ago i was more in contact with my direct living/feeling and so on.
Than comes the knowledge “about” ..and producing a distance .Im loosing something.
so “the observer is the observed” is coming back whats going on now, direct from the
intellectual to the “feelings”-being ( incl. the intellect. )
Sir thanq so much. It’s really great explanation.
Well I have read all these comments, and in them all the I seems to be the important one so until that is put an end to one will not get anywhere. Just keep on looking inward, keep the searchlight there. Love.
perspective is important to our perception of life and values is corrupted every day by modern day beliefs and way of life we are hopeless sometimes because we are so divided if only we could work together more as a community and always want more for others and set our goals bigger do for others and not for urself sometimes it seems hopeless but in desperation and struggle is hope and happiness on the other side there will always be a balance and a positive and a negative finding that balance is the hardest part in life
I like your site.
-M
The point he is making, is quite simply this: Realize that if we were to live someone’s life, in their body, with the environment and people that surrounded them as they grew. Then we would make EVERY decision, just as they have, with no exception.
To be put even more simply, our spirits, or the essence of what our minds and feelings are, are the same. So if we aren’t trying to relate to one another, then we are forever ignorant.
So, instead of a critics eye of judgment, and choosing to avoid (a-void I’ve never known a void to be good) the person you see with whatever error it may be that grabbed your attention.
I, 30yr. Jake Reno from Warrior, Alabama, formally ask that you have compassion for the soul – you see before you – which contains an error that_you witnessed/experienced in your past_ but now you have the answer that the other soul, aka another version of yourself, needs to improve.
Basically, it boils down to. Make each decision that effects another person as if you are the one who would receive the consequences.
I discovered early on in this existence of myself, that every decision we make, even seemingly simple ones, are like trees in the way that all decisions we act on. Have more effect than we use the time, to consider.
I personally have studied all religions and never stop with questions until I corner the answer i seek, and know it is truth when I am able to trap it using the words that describe it.
The KJV of the bible has been tainted but is still the “keystone” to connect all cultures and religions. And the existence of our world *requires balance*. I present this way of thought, Instead of looking at Earth as a Globe or even flat. Imagine it is a spinning top, made from what was available to use at the moment. Therefore, God shapes the earth into his spinning top, but he wanted more thus all life form were born in every way to make them. And since God was the only life in existence he used little pieces of himself inside EVERYTHING, which I might add would not rule out aliens. We know of 2 forms of life besides the animals. The Angel’s and ourselves. They were pulled from him and shaped, where as we’re mixed with God’s essence along with the water and dirt aka mud + living light. The waters and the first that God physically walled on and reached into were purified (thus, the “sacred temples” and waters were made” [an ex. Of the water, is the river located under the largest pyramid and contains the only known black sarcophagus that is submerged in a seemingly glowing underground river. For some reason, although 1st discovered by the egyptians, then Greeks, and thanks to a note left behind by a Greek person/group we discovered it and took a peek inside to see that it has remained undisturbed to this day. I believe that water is the reason for the stories behind: the of the fountain of youth, being baptized, holy water etc. As well as, the reasons for: some people being naturally more blessed for what seems to be an unfair reason, like Kings and Queens throughout history. Giving weight to the reason behind arranging royal marriages, and keeping bloodlines in a line.
I found a way to partially do this naturally, by first understanding I require balance in life, 2nd is understanding what has to be balanced and how. . . the answer is balance the good and bad within you. It’s what makes fasting important. For me, I was starving for food and water. And when a cold drink and a snack was brought to me, I was telling myself to resist that temptation as long as I could and behold what happened. To be 3 × the 3 day kill limit for no water was my whole reason to try resisting. You see, I was stranded (knee was too damaged, from a fully dislocated knee injury, to just walk) and being robbed food and bill money, by my own dad as he left for rehab, drugs stashed all over himself, to avoid jail. Resulting in the power, water, and internet being shut off within 2 days of one another. I’m wondering what the hell I was going to do because I thought when the power went off that I could still come up with a way to make it and to generate my own power to survive with my fiance whom I discovered was pregnant the next day less than 10 minutes before the water was being shut off. There I was, recovering from injury, without a car, without a job, and suddenly no communication because the inernet was my only form after my original phone broke from falling 2 feet to the ground (I had zero cracks after 8 years). Nothing but thick woods around for miles. Leaving me to finally face the fact that I couldn’t just think my way out of these problems, and realize I have zero means of survival and I have a pregnant fiance dependent on me for hers and my son’s too. That’s when I decided to starve myself, I told Sophie that I loved her and my son-to-be and her having an easy pregnancy that’s fully nourished and nurtured is a 100% must for me [she looked into my eyes and cried when she realized I couldn’t be swayed on this, bc I meant what I said with every fiber of my being] it was 2 weeks of no food for me, still managed with water here and there. When I asked God what I needed to do so my pregnant fiance can have her best chances at a easy pregnancy. And also said to god that those 2 were my goal. Not me, bc I had faith in him and his words, and his words said that as long as i kept my faith then i would need for nothing and i also said, hey god this kind of a make it break it for me bc you also said that if anything you spoke aloud was a lie then you would cease to exist. So if I die, I’m calling you a liar first chance I get, i said as i laughed. This all why i stand by the words that say God of All things is without a shred of a doubt real. Because on my 49th day without so much as a crumb of food, it was my 9th day without a drop of water.
The whole time I did without, I had started lifting a 50 pound weight with no set goal except to do as much as i could in as many directions each arm/leg would handle without pain to my joints. First day, I got 3 curls and about 12 leg lifts. By the next time I ate…49 days later… i had not only gained the ability to start curling the weight from behind me at my lower back until i reached head level and continued to the shoulder blades, I could do it 30 times at least and my knee healed weeks faster than anticipated whilst over developing the muscles that hold it together, thusfar preventing future injury. I would wake up and do a full body workout until I collapsed (i love all things math and the amount of body weight I could tangibly measure in sweat alone, every day I wouldn’t stop till I was drenched from my hat dripping off the bill to tmy shoes dripping and even the inseam of my Jeans soaked, all those factors should have taken me from 200 pounds to about 40 [not joking or exaggerating in the least, I was only able to drink an approximate liter of water every other day] but I only shed 20 pounds. The vast majority of that time I spent just talking to God. That’s how God showed me that he could in fact sustain me entirely without requiring anything to drink or eat. It was a hard fought battle when my brother showed up with a cold drink that I could see sweating and a large frosted honey bun!
But, i had developed a true friendship with God and he speaks to you with underlining tones of laughter and joy as he speaks every word. Like a father humored by his sons question and explaining while laughing at the same time. No other voice in your mind is of god if it lacks that key factor.
My point in sharing my experiences, and conclusions is that God is in fact perfect, and he sees purpose in all things. To him, good and bad only exist as little weights (with the exception of a very real evil that he will not tolerate) and we have to find the balance between those. Every time a person finds true balance within, is the entire reason for our creation. It’s as if he made countless versions of himself in all forms, mixed with all things not of him, and then gave us instruction for harmony and sat back to watch it unfold. He is a constant, and everything essentially reverts back to it’s original state so when he created all that we have and sent us on our spinning journey it was only a matter of time before the weight shifted and too unbalanced to continue. Which is judgement day, or the day we get weighed based on our works in life.
The things that god marvels at, is watching each spinning top (us) wobble and just as they are failing out suddenly reach for him and he simply provides all the means and knowledge for your balance.
Speaking aloud is key to communicate with God, bc the way I see it is if he had no other option but to speak us into existence as well and mold us with his hands. The we must learn and reflect this back to him.
He does this bc his is living light that is infinite and the light that emanates from him can and be seen by us reflecting his light back to him. Otherwise he has only nothingness to view. It’s almost like our entire world is a small disco to him. With the end resulting in companionship.
The ultimate reason for this is because he desired a purpose for himself that he had to commit to or otherwise cease to exist himself.
So in a way, he cared about us so much that he risked infinite power and infinite life just to have us. I also know that you can’t burn a soul, let alone torture it for eternity. He will either merge back with the peices that failed and remake them without flaw. Or they will lay dormant like a dreamless sleep. I think that may be why some people yearn for that long sleep.
“The Observer Is the Observed” this realisation happens in deep meditation, meditation as not we know, but where the unconscious mind doesn’t play any role. movement of thought become still then there is no division in conscious and unconscious mind. This is the state where one turned into intense energy, But as soon as the mind is divided into conscious and unconscious mind immediately unconscious mind/past-conditioning become observer and conscious mind/present-thought become observer.